Spark java.lang.outofmemoryerror gc overhead limit exceeded - Exception in thread thread_name: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC Overhead limit exceeded 原因: 「GC overhead limit exceeded」という詳細メッセージは、ガベージ・コレクタが常時実行されているため、Javaプログラムの処理がほとんど進んでいないことを示しています。

 
In summary, 1. Move the test execution out of jenkins 2. Provide the output of the report as an input to your performance plug-in [ this can also crash since it will need more JVM memory when you process endurance test results like an 8 hour result file] This way, your tests will have better chance of scaling.. Apartments under dollar1000 near me

Java Spark - java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded - Large Dataset Load 7 more related questions Show fewer related questions 01. To your first point, @samthebest, you should not use ALL the memory for spark.executor.memory because you definitely need some amount of memory for I/O overhead. If you use all of it, it will slow down your program. The exception to this might be Unix, in which case you have swap space. – makansij. Aug 4, 2014 · I got a 40 node cdh 5.1 cluster and attempting to run a simple spark app that processes about 10-15GB raw data but I keep running into this error: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. Each node has 8 cores and 2GB memory. I notice the heap size on the executors is set to 512MB with total set to 2GB. Sep 1, 2015 · Sorted by: 2. From the logs it looks like the driver is running out of memory. For certain actions like collect, rdd data from all workers is transferred to the driver JVM. Check your driver JVM settings. Avoid collecting so much data onto driver JVM. Share. Improve this answer. Follow. Jun 7, 2021 · 1. Trying to scale a pyspark app on AWS EMR. Was able to get it to work for one day of data (around 8TB), but keep running into (what I believe are) OOM errors when trying to test it on one week of data (around 50TB) I set my spark configs based on this article. Originally, I got a java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space from the Driver std ... Jul 29, 2016 · If I had to guess your using Spark 1.5.2 or earlier. What is happening is you run out of memory. I think youre running out of executor memory, so you're probably doing a map-side aggregate. Mar 22, 2018 · When I train the spark-nlp CRF model, emerged java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded error Description I found the training process only run on driver ... java .lang.OutOfMemoryError: プロジェクト のルートから次のコマンドを実行すると、GCオーバーヘッド制限が エラーをすぐに超えました。. mvn exec: exec. また、状況によっては、 GC Overhead LimitExceeded エラーが発生する前にヒープスペースエラーが発生する場合が ...Nov 9, 2020 · GC Overhead limit exceeded exceptions disappeared. However, we still had the Java heap space OOM errors to solve . Our next step was to look at our cluster health to see if we could get any clues. 7. I am getting a java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded exception when I try to run the program below. This program's main method access' a specified directory and iterates over all the files that contain .xlsx. This works fine as I tested it before any of the other logic.Jul 20, 2023 · The default behavior for Apache Hive joins is to load the entire contents of a table into memory so that a join can be performed without having to perform a Map/Reduce step. If the Hive table is too large to fit into memory, the query can fail. May 24, 2023 · scala.MatchError: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space (of class java.lang.OutOfMemoryError) Cause. This issue is often caused by a lack of resources when opening large spark-event files. The Spark heap size is set to 1 GB by default, but large Spark event files may require more than this. Aug 12, 2021 · Why does Spark fail with java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded? Related questions. 11 ... Spark memory limit exceeded issue. 2 POI is notoriously memory-hungry, so running out of memory is not uncommon when handling large Excel-files. When you are able to load all original files and only get trouble writing the merged file you could try using an SXSSFWorkbook instead of an XSSFWorkbook and do regular flushes after adding a certain amount of content (see poi-documentation of the org.apache.poi.xssf.streaming-package).We have a spark SQL query that returns over 5 million rows. Collecting them all for processing results in java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded (eventually).scala.MatchError: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space (of class java.lang.OutOfMemoryError) Cause. This issue is often caused by a lack of resources when opening large spark-event files. The Spark heap size is set to 1 GB by default, but large Spark event files may require more than this.I got a 40 node cdh 5.1 cluster and attempting to run a simple spark app that processes about 10-15GB raw data but I keep running into this error: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded . Each node has 8 cores and 2GB memory. I notice the heap size on the executors is set to 512MB with total set to 2GB.Apr 14, 2020 · I'm trying to process, 10GB of data using spark it is giving me this error, java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. Laptop configuration is: 4CPU, 8 logical cores, 8GB RAM. Spark configuration while submitting the spark job. java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded 17/09/13 17:15:52 WARN server.TransportChannelHandler: Exception in connection from spark2/192.168.155.3:57252 java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded 17/09/13 17:15:52 INFO storage.BlockManagerMasterEndpoint: Removing block manager BlockManagerId(6, spark1, 54732) Problem: The job executes successfully when the read request has less number of rows from Aurora DB but as the number of rows goes up to millions, I start getting "GC overhead limit exceeded error". I am using JDBC driver for Aurora DB connection.When I train the spark-nlp CRF model, emerged java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded error Description I found the training process only run on driver ...In summary, 1. Move the test execution out of jenkins 2. Provide the output of the report as an input to your performance plug-in [ this can also crash since it will need more JVM memory when you process endurance test results like an 8 hour result file] This way, your tests will have better chance of scaling. Jul 15, 2020 · 此次异常是在集群上运行的spark程序日志中发现的。由于这个异常导致sparkcontext被终止,以致于任务失败:出现的一些原因参考:GC overhead limit exceededjava.lang.OutOfMemoryError有几种分类的,这次碰到的是java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded,下面就来说说这种类型的内存溢出。 Sparkで大きなファイルを処理する際などに「java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded」が発生する場合があります。 この際の対処方法をいかに記述します. GC overhead limit exceededとは. 簡単にいうと. GCが処理時間全体の98%以上を占める; GCによって確保されたHeap ...Two comments: xlConnect has the same problem. And more importantly, telling somebody to use a different library isn't a solution to the problem with the one being referenced. and, when i run this script on spark-shell i got following error, after running line of code simsPerfect_entries.count(): java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded Updated: I tried many solutions already given by others ,but i got no success. 1 By increasing amount of memory to use per executor process spark.executor.memory=1gThe GC Overhead Limit Exceeded error is one from the java.lang.OutOfMemoryError family, and it’s an indication of a resource (memory) exhaustion. In this quick tutorial, we’ll look at what causes the java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC Overhead Limit Exceeded error and how it can be solved.May 13, 2018 · [error] (run-main-0) java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. The solution to the problem was to allocate more memory when I start SBT. To give SBT more RAM I first issue this command at the command line: $ export SBT_OPTS="-XX:+CMSClassUnloadingEnabled -XX:MaxPermSize=2G -Xmx2G" I'm running a Spark application (Spark 1.6.3 cluster), which does some calculations on 2 small data sets, and writes the result into an S3 Parquet file. Here is my code: public void doWork(Dec 13, 2022 · Spark DataFrame java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded on long loop run 1 sparklyr failing with java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. System specs: OS osx + boot2docker (8 gig RAM for virtual machine) ubuntu 15.10 inside docker container. Oracle java 1.7 or Oracle java 1.8 or OpenJdk 1.8. Scala version 2.11.6. sbt version 0.13.8. It fails only if I am running docker build w/ Dockerfile.GC Overhead limit exceeded exceptions disappeared. However, we still had the Java heap space OOM errors to solve . Our next step was to look at our cluster health to see if we could get any clues.Apr 30, 2018 · And. ERROR : java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. To resolve heap space issue I have added below config in spark-defaults.conf file. This works fine. spark.driver.memory 1g. In order to solve GC overhead limit exceeded issue I have added below config. Apr 14, 2020 · I'm trying to process, 10GB of data using spark it is giving me this error, java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. Laptop configuration is: 4CPU, 8 logical cores, 8GB RAM. Spark configuration while submitting the spark job. Pyspark: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded Hot Network Questions Usage of the word "deployment" in a software development contextOptions that come to mind are: Specify more memory using the JAVA_OPTS enviroment variable, try something in between like - Xmx1G. You can also tune your GC manually by enabling -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC. For more options on GC tuning refer Concurrent Mark Sweep. Increasing the HEAP size should fix your routes limit problem.In this article, we examined the java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC Overhead Limit Exceeded and the reasons behind it. As always, the source code related to this article can be found over on GitHub . Course – LS (cat=Java)Feb 5, 2019 · Sorted by: 1. The difference was in available memory for driver. I found out it by zeppelin-interpreter-spark.log: memorystore started with capacity .... When I used bult-in spark it was 2004.6 MB for external spark it was 366.3 MB. So, I increased available memory for driver by setting spark.driver.memory in zeppelin gui. It solved the problem. I'm running a Spark application (Spark 1.6.3 cluster), which does some calculations on 2 small data sets, and writes the result into an S3 Parquet file. Here is my code: public void doWork(1. I had this problem several times, sometimes randomly. What helped me so far was using the following command at the beginning of the script before loading any other package! options (java.parameters = c ("-XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC", "-Xmx8192m")) The -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC loads an alternative garbage collector which seemed to make less ...I got a 40 node cdh 5.1 cluster and attempting to run a simple spark app that processes about 10-15GB raw data but I keep running into this error: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded . Each node has 8 cores and 2GB memory. I notice the heap size on the executors is set to 512MB with total set to 2GB.Spark DataFrame java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded on long loop run 6 Pyspark: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceededGetting OutofMemoryError- GC overhead limit exceed in pyspark. 34,090. The simplest thing to try would be increasing spark executor memory: spark.executor.memory=6g. Make sure you're using all the available memory. You can check that in UI. UPDATE 1. --conf spark.executor.extrajavaoptions="Option" you can pass -Xmx1024m as an option.Jul 16, 2015 · java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. System specs: OS osx + boot2docker (8 gig RAM for virtual machine) ubuntu 15.10 inside docker container. Oracle java 1.7 or Oracle java 1.8 or OpenJdk 1.8. Scala version 2.11.6. sbt version 0.13.8. It fails only if I am running docker build w/ Dockerfile. Apr 14, 2020 · I'm trying to process, 10GB of data using spark it is giving me this error, java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. Laptop configuration is: 4CPU, 8 logical cores, 8GB RAM. Spark configuration while submitting the spark job. The first approach works fine, the second ends up in another java.lang.OutOfMemoryError, this time about the heap. So, question: is there any programmatic alternative to this, for the particular use case (i.e., several small HashMap objects)?Nov 13, 2018 · I have some data on postgres and trying to read that data on spark dataframe but i get error java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. I am using ... Jan 18, 2022 · Closed. 3 tasks. ulysses-you added a commit that referenced this issue on Jan 19, 2022. [KYUUBI #1800 ] [1.4] Remove oom hook. 952efb5. ulysses-you mentioned this issue on Feb 17, 2022. [Bug] SparkContext stopped abnormally, but the KyuubiEngine did not stop. #1924. Closed. Mar 4, 2023 · Just before this exception worker was repeatedly launching an executor as executor was exiting :-. EXITING with Code 1 and exitStatus 1. Configs:-. -Xmx for worker process = 1GB. Total RAM on worker node = 100GB. Java 8. Spark 2.2.1. When this exception occurred , 90% of system memory was free. After this expection the process is still up but ... java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. This occurs when there is not enough virtual memory assigned to the File-AID/EX Execution Server (Engine) while processing larger tables, especially when doing an Update-In-Place. Note: The terms Execution Server and Engine are interchangeable in File-AID/EX.java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. My solution: set high values in >Settings >Build, Execution, Deployment >Build Tools >Maven >Importing - e.g. -Xmx1g and. change the maven implementation under >Settings >Build, Execution, Deployment >Build Tools >Maven (Maven home directory) from (Bundled) Maven 3 to my local maven ...and, when i run this script on spark-shell i got following error, after running line of code simsPerfect_entries.count(): java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded Updated: I tried many solutions already given by others ,but i got no success. 1 By increasing amount of memory to use per executor process spark.executor.memory=1gUPDATE 2017-04-28. To drill down further, I enabled a heap dump for the driver: cfg = SparkConfig () cfg.set ('spark.driver.extraJavaOptions', '-XX:+HeapDumpOnOutOfMemoryError') I ran it with 8G of spark.driver.memory and I analyzed the heap dump with Eclipse MAT. It turns out there are two classes of considerable size (~4G each):For debugging run through the Spark shell, Zeppelin adds over head and takes a decent amount of YARN resources and RAM. Run on Spark 1.6 / HDP 2.4.2 if you can. Allocate as much memory as possible.– java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded – org.apache.spark.shuffle.FetchFailedException Possible Causes and Solutions An executor might have to deal with partitions requiring more memory than what is assigned. Consider increasing the –executor memory or the executor memory overhead to a suitable value for your application.Viewed 803 times. 1. I have 1.2GB of orc data on S3 and I am trying to do the following with the same : 1) Cache the data on snappy cluster [snappydata 0.9] 2) Execute a groupby query on the cached dataset. 3) Compare the performance with Spark 2.0.0. I am using a 64 GB/8 core machine and the configuration for the Snappy Cluster are as follows ...Jan 20, 2020 · Problem: The job executes successfully when the read request has less number of rows from Aurora DB but as the number of rows goes up to millions, I start getting "GC overhead limit exceeded error". I am using JDBC driver for Aurora DB connection. And. ERROR : java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. To resolve heap space issue I have added below config in spark-defaults.conf file. This works fine. spark.driver.memory 1g. In order to solve GC overhead limit exceeded issue I have added below config.GC overhead limit exceeded is thrown when the cpu spends more than 98% for garbage collection tasks. It happens in Scala when using immutable data structures since that for each transformation the JVM will have to re-create a lot of new objects and remove the previous ones from the heap.The detail message "GC overhead limit exceeded" indicates that the garbage collector is running all the time and Java program is making very slow progress. Can be fixed in 2 ways 1) By Suppressing GC Overhead limit warning in JVM parameter Ex- -Xms1024M -Xmx2048M -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:-UseGCOverheadLimit. Apr 26, 2017 · UPDATE 2017-04-28. To drill down further, I enabled a heap dump for the driver: cfg = SparkConfig () cfg.set ('spark.driver.extraJavaOptions', '-XX:+HeapDumpOnOutOfMemoryError') I ran it with 8G of spark.driver.memory and I analyzed the heap dump with Eclipse MAT. It turns out there are two classes of considerable size (~4G each): How do I resolve "OutOfMemoryError" Hive Java heap space exceptions on Amazon EMR that occur when Hive outputs the query results? Tune the property spark.storage.memoryFraction and spark.memory.storageFraction .You can also issue the command to tune this- spark-submit ... --executor-memory 4096m --num-executors 20.. Or by changing the GC policy.Check the current GC value.Set the value to - XX:G1GC. Share. Improve this answer. Follow.When calling on the read operation, spark first does a step where it lists all underlying files in S3, which is executed successfully. After this it does an initial load of all the data to construct a composite json schema for all files.Tune the property spark.storage.memoryFraction and spark.memory.storageFraction .You can also issue the command to tune this- spark-submit ... --executor-memory 4096m --num-executors 20.. Or by changing the GC policy.Check the current GC value.Set the value to - XX:G1GC. Share. Improve this answer. Follow.java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. ... java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded? ... Spark executor lost because of GC overhead ...java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC Overhead limit exceeded; java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space. Note: JavaHeapSpace OOM can occur if the system doesn’t have enough memory for the data it needs to process. In some cases, choosing a bigger instance like i3.4x large(16 vCPU, 122Gib ) can solve the problem.7. I am getting a java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded exception when I try to run the program below. This program's main method access' a specified directory and iterates over all the files that contain .xlsx. This works fine as I tested it before any of the other logic.Oct 16, 2019 · Here a fragment that I used first with Spark-Shell (sshell on my terminal), Add memory by most popular directives, sshell --driver-memory 12G --executor-memory 24G Remove the most internal (and problematic) loop, reducing int to parts = fs.listStatus( new Path(t) ).length and enclosing it into a try directive. Mar 4, 2023 · Just before this exception worker was repeatedly launching an executor as executor was exiting :-. EXITING with Code 1 and exitStatus 1. Configs:-. -Xmx for worker process = 1GB. Total RAM on worker node = 100GB. Java 8. Spark 2.2.1. When this exception occurred , 90% of system memory was free. After this expection the process is still up but ... 1. To your first point, @samthebest, you should not use ALL the memory for spark.executor.memory because you definitely need some amount of memory for I/O overhead. If you use all of it, it will slow down your program. The exception to this might be Unix, in which case you have swap space. – makansij.Just before this exception worker was repeatedly launching an executor as executor was exiting :-. EXITING with Code 1 and exitStatus 1. Configs:-. -Xmx for worker process = 1GB. Total RAM on worker node = 100GB. Java 8. Spark 2.2.1. When this exception occurred , 90% of system memory was free. After this expection the process is still up but ...Feb 12, 2012 · Java Spark - java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded - Large Dataset Load 7 more related questions Show fewer related questions 0 4) If the new generation size is explicitly defined with JVM options (e.g. -XX:NewSize, -XX:MaxNewSize), decrease the size or remove the relevant JVM options entirely to unconstrain the JVM and provide more space in the old generation for long lived objects.Sep 26, 2019 · 4) If the new generation size is explicitly defined with JVM options (e.g. -XX:NewSize, -XX:MaxNewSize), decrease the size or remove the relevant JVM options entirely to unconstrain the JVM and provide more space in the old generation for long lived objects. Just before this exception worker was repeatedly launching an executor as executor was exiting :-. EXITING with Code 1 and exitStatus 1. Configs:-. -Xmx for worker process = 1GB. Total RAM on worker node = 100GB. Java 8. Spark 2.2.1. When this exception occurred , 90% of system memory was free. After this expection the process is still up but ...Jan 18, 2022 · Closed. 3 tasks. ulysses-you added a commit that referenced this issue on Jan 19, 2022. [KYUUBI #1800 ] [1.4] Remove oom hook. 952efb5. ulysses-you mentioned this issue on Feb 17, 2022. [Bug] SparkContext stopped abnormally, but the KyuubiEngine did not stop. #1924. Closed. @Sandeep Nemuri. I have resolved this issue with increasing spark_daemon_memory in spark configuration . Advanced spark2-env.Should it still not work, restart your R session, and then try (before any packages are loaded) instead options (java.parameters = "-Xmx8g") and directly after that execute gc (). Alternatively, try to further increase the RAM from "-Xmx8g" to e.g. "-Xmx16g" (provided that you have at least as much RAM).From docs: spark.driver.memory "Amount of memory to use for the driver process, i.e. where SparkContext is initialized. (e.g. 1g, 2g). Note: In client mode, this config must not be set through the SparkConf directly in your application, because the driver JVM has already started at that point.Created on ‎08-04-2014 10:38 AM - edited ‎09-16-2022 02:04 AM. I got a 40 node cdh 5.1 cluster and attempting to run a simple spark app that processes about 10-15GB raw data but I keep running into this error: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. Each node has 8 cores and 2GB memory. I notice the heap size on the ...

Two comments: xlConnect has the same problem. And more importantly, telling somebody to use a different library isn't a solution to the problem with the one being referenced. . 2 bedroom apartments in orlando under dollar700

spark java.lang.outofmemoryerror gc overhead limit exceeded

Mar 22, 2018 · When I train the spark-nlp CRF model, emerged java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded error Description I found the training process only run on driver ... May 28, 2013 · A new Java thread is requested by an application running inside the JVM. JVM native code proxies the request to create a new native thread to the OS The OS tries to create a new native thread which requires memory to be allocated to the thread. The OS will refuse native memory allocation either because the 32-bit Java process size has depleted ... Here a fragment that I used first with Spark-Shell (sshell on my terminal), Add memory by most popular directives, sshell --driver-memory 12G --executor-memory 24G Remove the most internal (and problematic) loop, reducing int to parts = fs.listStatus( new Path(t) ).length and enclosing it into a try directive.Sep 23, 2018 · Spark: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded Hot Network Questions AI tricks space pirates into attacking its ship; kills all but one as part of effort to "civilize" space Jul 21, 2017 · 1. I had this problem several times, sometimes randomly. What helped me so far was using the following command at the beginning of the script before loading any other package! options (java.parameters = c ("-XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC", "-Xmx8192m")) The -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC loads an alternative garbage collector which seemed to make less ... The first approach works fine, the second ends up in another java.lang.OutOfMemoryError, this time about the heap. So, question: is there any programmatic alternative to this, for the particular use case (i.e., several small HashMap objects)? And. ERROR : java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. To resolve heap space issue I have added below config in spark-defaults.conf file. This works fine. spark.driver.memory 1g. In order to solve GC overhead limit exceeded issue I have added below config.Sep 26, 2019 · 4) If the new generation size is explicitly defined with JVM options (e.g. -XX:NewSize, -XX:MaxNewSize), decrease the size or remove the relevant JVM options entirely to unconstrain the JVM and provide more space in the old generation for long lived objects. Nov 22, 2021 · 1 Answer. You are exceeding driver capacity (6GB) when calling collectToPython. This makes sense as your executor has much larger memory limit than the driver (12Gb). The problem I see in your case is that increasing driver memory may not be a good solution as you are already near the virtual machine limits (16GB). Oct 31, 2018 · For Windows, I solved the GC overhead limit exceeded issue, by modifying the environment MAVEN_OPTS variable value with: -Xmx1024M -Xss128M -XX:MetaspaceSize=512M -XX:MaxMetaspaceSize=1024M -XX:+CMSClassUnloadingEnabled. Share. Improve this answer. Follow. GC Overhead limit exceeded. — Increase executor memory. At times we also need to check if the value for spark.storage.memoryFraction has not been set to a higher value (>0.6).Nov 20, 2019 · We have a spark SQL query that returns over 5 million rows. Collecting them all for processing results in java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded (eventually). Nov 13, 2018 · I have some data on postgres and trying to read that data on spark dataframe but i get error java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded. I am using ... 7. I am getting a java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded exception when I try to run the program below. This program's main method access' a specified directory and iterates over all the files that contain .xlsx. This works fine as I tested it before any of the other logic..

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